Legislature(2013 - 2014)CAPITOL 120
04/07/2014 01:00 PM House JUDICIARY
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearings: || Confirmation Hearings: | |
| HB214 | |
| Confirmation Hearings: || Confirmation Hearings: | |
| HB214 | |
| HB282 | |
| HB375 | |
| HB60 | |
| HB282 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| + | HB 60 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 214 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 381 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 375 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 64 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 108 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 282 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 60-UNIFORM REAL PROPERTY TRANSFERS ON DEATH
2:23:39 PM
CHAIR KELLER announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 60. "An Act adopting and relating to the Uniform
Real Property Transfer on Death Act."
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he is one of the sponsors of HB
60, and he has a committee substitute.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG moved to adopt the proposed committee
substitute (CS) for HB 60, labeled 28-LS0265\Y, Bannister,
4/6/14, as the working document.
2:25:09 PM
CHAIR KELLER objected.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said there are two people from out of
state on the phone line. One, Thomas Gallanis, is the reporter
for the uniform act and is a law professor at the University of
Iowa Law School. The reporter is the person who puts the
[uniform] act together, he explained.
2:26:17 PM
THOMAS GALLANIS, Professor, University of Iowa Law School, said
he was the reporter for the Uniform Property Transfer on Death
Act. He said he does not have prepared remarks; however, he
fully associates himself with the written testimony, which was
submitted on March 21 to the Labor and Commerce Committee by Ben
Orzeske of the Uniform Law Commission. He was told that the
written testimony has been made available to the Judiciary
Committee, and he would be happy to answer any questions.
2:27:06 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said nobody on this committee sits on
the Labor and Commerce Committee, and he asked if Mr. Gallanis
could briefly describe the problem that the uniform act
addresses and how it addresses it, then the committee will know
what he has done and why HB 60 is important.
MR. GALLANIS said that over that last few decades there has been
growth in the "non-probate revolution," which is the ability of
people to easily and thriftily transfer their property to named
beneficiaries outside of the probate process. The non-probate
revolution has historically focused on personal property. For
example, bank accounts now have a pay-on-death feature, and
there are securities registered in transfer-on-death (TOD) form.
Those are non-probate transfers, he stated. Citizens across the
country routinely take advantage of this trend to pass money and
personal property to a named beneficiary outside of probate.
The Uniform Real Property Transfer on Death Act would allow
Alaska residents to similarly transfer real property to a named
beneficiary at the time of the owner's death. This idea of a
transfer-on-death deed has been around for some time, he said,
and Missouri, in 1989, became the first state to allow such
deeds.
2:29:16 PM
MR. GALLANIS said five states allowed it by 2002, and the
Uniform Law Commission then began to study the issue. The Real
Property Transfer on Death Act was completed by the commission
in 2009, and 23 states now have the uniform act or similar
legislation.
2:30:03 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked if the latest state to pass
legislation is South Dakota, and that three other states,
including Alaska, are considering the issue.
MR. GALLANIS said that the two states recently considering the
legislation, Washington and West Virginia, have enacted it. In
response to Representative Gruenberg, he explained the process
in that a person owning property would execute a deed, and the
deed would comply with all of the standard requirements for a
legally reportable deed, but the deed would name a beneficiary
who would not have any interest in the property until the owner
died. The deed will operate analogously to a will or a pay-on-
death bank account. The deed, in effect, lies dormant while the
owner is alive, but it operates efficiently and outside of
probate at the owner's death to transfer the property to the
beneficiary.
2:32:20 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG noted that page 3 [of the bill] says
that the deed must state that it occurs at the person's death,
and it identifies the person specifically. He asked, "What do
you do with the deed and how does it operate?"
MR. GALLANIS said the deed is recorded, but unlike a standard
inter-vivos deed, which operates to transfer ownership during
the owner's lifetime, this transfer operates at death.
2:33:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked if a person can revoke or
renounce the deed.
MR. GALLANIS said absolutely. These transfer-on-death deeds,
like pay-on-death designations for a bank account, have the two
principle features of wills: they are both fully revocable
during the owner's life and they are ambulatory. The uniform
act lays out multiple ways in which the deed can be revoked, and
one way is to record a subsequent deed, which will revoke the
prior deed, and another way is to file an instrument of
revocation. If the owner sells the property to another person,
that revokes the transfer-on-death deed.
2:35:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked about a non-recorded will that
will not be effective.
MR. GALLANIS said, "We very much want information about the
property to be in the chain of title, and therefore simply
executing a will that sends 123 Main Street to a different
beneficiary does not operate to revoke the transfer-on-death
deed."
2:35:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said the key is that it must be
recorded, so anyone can look quickly and see if the deed is
still valid.
MR. GALLANIS agreed. He added that during the drafting of the
uniform act, there was significant help from the estate planning
and real property sections of the bar and from a title insurance
and banking representative. "They really helped us think
through all of the issues to make sure that there would not be
[indecipherable] on title," he said.
CHAIR KELLER said that the committee is not going to move the
bill today, and it will be set aside at 2:45.
MR. GALLANIS responded to a question and said that in the
uniform act there is both a suggested form for the transfer-on-
death deed and a suggested form for the instrument of
revocation. He noted that he has not looked at the Alaska
version of the bill to know what forms are included.
2:37:50 PM
CHAIR KELLER said both forms are in the latest version of the
bill. He asked what happens when someone is acting on behalf of
an owner and what complications are there when someone has the
power of attorney.
2:39:15 PM
BENJAMIN ORZESKE, Legislative Council, Uniform Acts on Real
Property, Trusts, and Estates, Uniform Law Commission, said the
act requires the owners of the property to act personally, and
they must have the capacity to act for themselves. If a person
does not have the capacity to execute a will, that person cannot
execute a transfer-on-death deed, he explained, and the deed
must be recorded in public lands records before the owner's
death, he added. Unless a power-of-attorney specifically says
that it allows the agent to act on behalf of the principal to
change beneficiary designations or to dispose of a specific
parcel of real property, under most power-of-attorney statutes
the agent would not be permitted to execute one of these deeds
on behalf of the principal who granted that authority.
2:41:36 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said the bill addresses that on page 4:
If a recorded power-of-attorney or the transfer-on-
death deed expressly grants a designated agent of the
transfer or the power to revoke a transfer-on-death
deed, the designated agent may revoke the transfer-on-
death deed as provided in this section.
2:42:55 PM
BRANDON CINTULA, Alaska Trust Company, said he supports HB 60
for all Alaskans.
[Testimony was cut off due to audio problems.]
2:44:33 PM
MARIE DARLIN, Alaska Commission on Aging, said the Alaska
Commission on Aging has supported this legislation from the very
beginning. She noted her written testimony that contains
additional information. The bill takes care of a lot of
problems, she stated, and the Alaska Commission on Aging fully
supports the bill and has tried to work with those involved.
She added that AARP has been involved as well, and this is
something that has been needed for a long time.
2:47:06 PM
CHAIR KELLER set HB 60 aside.